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Post by kimmyfox on Aug 29, 2018 19:50:47 GMT
Will just add my brief take on this as I believe to been one people bringing this up with Suzie, I peeped at some peoples profile and see people with 1000$ and some with more etc. But I have personally not made character sheet yet, because I have not really been active in event system. But if I were to RP my interactions with guest at hotel I would probably have at least 8000$ worth in tip money, I basically got from people who come by and decide their rich and throw me very generous tips.
I imagine for those who work RP jobs and do hard at it to try earn RP currency this must feel little unfair, I mean they could invest huge amount of RP effort into building business and try to be successful. Then have people coming from outside rich being still some what middle weight in comparison, feel like I see more rich guest at hotel then average people simply because they can choose how much money they have. Many don't even stop to think for moment if they should pay extra 25$ dollars for ocean view or not.
Another aspect is will be hard to employ active workers in sim as whole if there not real reward in it, don't get me wrong I like working at hotel but it's not always interesting to sit and wait sometimes hours for any guest to check in standing around at reception. Think if there is not really anything rewarding in those jobs, nobody or few is going to actually want to pick them up plus actively show up for work there. Think it will make many jobs become 1 time RP for many where they only show up once, or occasionally when they feel little bored then leave if nothing exciting happens.
Ofcause you can't blame people for wanting to leave if nothing interesting is happening, but it is going to make it harder creating RP city with anything really happening outside schedule events if nobody hangs around and helps make it feel active. Ofcause because of Real life it's not going to be possible for everyone to work many hours in RP jobs, but hiring workers are real problem sometimes we had several at hotel showing up few times then after we either don't hear from them or never see them around again.
So guess what I am trying to say is that I think will be really hard to find people to work jobs, plus I think create many grey areas is my tip money worth anything or not for instance, because I have guest sometimes throw me 500-1000$ in tip money.
EDIT: That said something to complex or demanding it probably also turn of casual Roleplayers from coming visiting so don't know what be a good solution
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Post by Shepard on Aug 29, 2018 20:14:51 GMT
I feel Kimmy makes an excellent point. As a bartender for the Blue Angel, I have met similar situations like Kimmy where nothing happens for ages and your standing around doing nothing. Now I can't fault anyone, especially the regular players, who have been so welcoming, helpful and understanding with me as I'm new to this expansive RP in this way. But I have thrown myself in at the deep-end and loving the experience and learning curve.
However one of my biggest issues has been the money system, like Kimmy some people have paid for drinks and left a tip, all using RP money and unfortunately I've not been in a position to know what to do in that moment, so I've just gone along with the RP. However in terms of people carrying crazy amounts of money and items, I've basically given my avatar the $100 dollars that is from this site, my employee card from the Blue Angel and have brought a phone in for RP purposes so I can talk to people across the map or send a message if they are offline.
Also on a slightly separate note, I was wondering if rent was charged for owning one of the buildings in the city? I've noticed several buildings sitting abandoned somewhat and feel it's a shame as clearly a lot of hard work has gone into everything. Now I'm serious about sticking around and joining the main story once I'm used to the mechanics and everything, and would love to maybe run the cinema. However my main concern at the minute is if a building has rent, unfortunately the serious RP's don't use the building and the 'light' RP's won't be paying real money, therefore I'd be wasting everyone's time, especially Suzie, Annikaa and the other Admins on the site.
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Post by Annikaa on Aug 29, 2018 21:05:30 GMT
Since everyone is confused what to do with their money, I suggest a charitable contribution to the church. Thank you for your generosity.
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Sybil
Full Member
"I think a plan is just a list of things that don't happen."
Posts: 134
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Post by Sybil on Aug 29, 2018 21:27:03 GMT
Since everyone is confused what to do with their money, I suggest a charitable contribution to the church. Thank you for your generosity. We are confused because it is a confusing system. Considering the amount of people involved in this thread it seems like many of the players are either confused by it or disagree with it.
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Pain
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Post by Pain on Aug 30, 2018 1:56:18 GMT
OK I have woken from my two hour nap! Time to address yalls concerns.
First Sybils
Honestly imo, that was the point to balancing the system. In this world, its centered around power, a fantasy. Let me explain. The money system is there to separate to two groups of people and yes, "Light" Rpers are supposta be OP, again their money is tied to the idea that our room could be fun, its how you start learning basic mechanics of the room and you slowly learn what you can an cannot do. When I started out, I seemed like a rich player, but it was tied to my ig gold, that I had spent real money on. Then Suzie implemented the system, and I had to gain wealth. Honestly, not to sound mean, but too me its a very simple system and although it seems the "Light" rpers are at an advantage, the disadvantage is their money, is shit lol.
The main concept is learning, and filling our world with more interesting characters. The goal is to turn "Light" rpers into "Heavy" Rpers, then know they can't spend money fake money all over the place. The beginning phase is supposta be hard because no one has any fucking money! The end goal is a room filled with unique people with well articulated stories to tell, without unbalanced outcomes. Ultimately, they turn to Heavy rpers and now your dances make actual money. That's the End Game, a world based on the forum money, where all your hard work gets paid what its worth because everyone will know by that time how much it took to accumulate all that wealth.
Finally, you can name the currency anything you like, it has value so I don't think it matters what you call it.
Next Kimmy
Regarding the whole idea around money flow and workers. The hotel is where the least money should being made. Here is why, and its unfair but it has to be this way. The hotel is the draw to the room in general, that and the city as a whole. Imo, everyone working at the hotel has the most important job in the room, along side the girls at Blue Angels, because most of the money you will get while working is worthless. Your main goal should be to invite people for longer periods of play, making them forum members and adding them to our world which adds to the economy of the game. For workers that's what the society skill is for, to help push them outta the hole.
To address everyones concern in a much broader term. You are not seeing the bigger picture. The growth of the room leads to more money being traded and shoved around, then higher level game play, more things to spend money on. You have to give it time to grow. Its a brand new system and I've only made around 900$. Your characters help shape the world, so you have to go out and make it as rich with lore as you can.
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Sybil
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"I think a plan is just a list of things that don't happen."
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Post by Sybil on Aug 30, 2018 2:33:39 GMT
See Pain I think we are either not understanding each other or maybe we are just having a fundamental difference of opinion about how this is going to effect people. I forsee people getting to come in, play around, be rich, claim to be the city mayor and have alot of fun doing that, they decide they wanna stay and now we tell them: "Sorry, you actually need to start using this other money and you can't be rich anymore." To me that drives people away not attracts them. And Angel's point about the hotel rooms still stands. Basically coming to rent a room with their fake money is half the reason I see most people come into the room to begin with.
I know how money is made based off stats is simple yes. The system is simple; it's implications are FAR from simple. Because if the end goal is to have everyone using the real money what is their motivation to do that? Cause right now it sounds to me like I can still be as rich as I want, so long as I am not buying bandages or spell components. If that is the way it's going to be fine, but then I don't see anyone having a reason to ever fully convert over to the money system unless part of the plan is to let this ride for a couple months then drop the hammer and say "beginning now all transactions are real money" and then we run into just having this discussion further down the road.
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Pain
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Post by Pain on Aug 30, 2018 4:46:28 GMT
To answer this in simplest terms. Yeah, you could do that, but you wouldn't be playing the game, and yes fundamentally we see it differently. You see it as pushing people away, I see it as filtering out people who don't know how to rp or lack the capacity to. And sorry if this sounds like Im being a dick, im just being blunt on the subject
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Post by kimmyfox on Aug 30, 2018 5:32:28 GMT
Next Kimmy
Regarding the whole idea around money flow and workers. The hotel is where the least money should being made. Here is why, and its unfair but it has to be this way. The hotel is the draw to the room in general, that and the city as a whole. Imo, everyone working at the hotel has the most important job in the room, along side the girls at Blue Angels, because most of the money you will get while working is worthless. Your main goal should be to invite people for longer periods of play, making them forum members and adding them to our world which adds to the economy of the game. For workers that's what the society skill is for, to help push them outta the hole.
To address everyones concern in a much broader term. You are not seeing the bigger picture. The growth of the room leads to more money being traded and shoved around, then higher level game play, more things to spend money on. You have to give it time to grow. Its a brand new system and I've only made around 900$. Your characters help shape the world, so you have to go out and make it as rich with lore as you can.
Well for me it doesn't really affect me personally since I work most time at hotel and basically live there, but would imagine it make it really hard to get anyone working at hotel. If they want to later expand their RP beyond hotel if they have to work long RP hours and at same time earn little or nothing to spend on events. Also brings another question here if someone ended wanting to both do event stuff and work at hotel, how will Olivia pay them if we basically don't earn any money if all money coming into hotel is fake money.
Because I feel as if some who may start working at hotel might eventually want to do more than just hotel RP, since it in itself isn't very rewarding since most it often are guest wanting Sex RP. So while it doesn't necessarily bother me that it's what many light RPers want coming there, it may feel boring or uninspiring for others longterm working there if they're kinda stuck doing only that without being at disadvantage trying event or story stuff.
But again since I don't use real money system I can't really say how it works or how rate of earning would mix in with working at hotel, if someone we might employ there want to partake in event story things. How exactly would that work for them then? If they end earning no real money I would imagine it be hard to keep workers at hotel as they may then feel they rather want job somewhere else like club or something where they can earn real money, if they plan on getting involved beyond hotel RP and turn into heavy RPers.
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Post by Suzie on Aug 30, 2018 7:02:00 GMT
I was planning to type a long answer but i have already said what i want to say in my other answers.
The thing now is ; either we keep it, either we remove it.
If we remove it the shop will follow and items will only be obtainable through events. Money won't be used again during my events.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 12:13:40 GMT
Part of my problem is, I really don't know what Angel's end game RP looks like, and I think that's okay. Others have goals and they are using the "real money" system to pursue those goals. Fine. I'm having a great time as the manager, and as a dancer, and as some stuff on the side. To me, this is extremely fun and satisfying and I see no reason to pursue anything else right now. Having said that, I really don't see myself having a real reason to use the "real money" system. I believe Suzie said we can choose not to use it. As long as I can buy stuff for myself such as clothes, accessories, tattoos and body piercings, and pay rent and all that using fake money, I really don't care about the rest of the stuff, or the shop. I checked with Suzie last night and asked if I can use my fake money to buy these things, and she said of course.
So, since the real money system doesn't affect me, then you guys do what you want, and I'll keep doing my thing. My only question is, if sometime later on down the road I decide I do want to switch over to it, can I do that?
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Post by Suzie on Aug 30, 2018 12:34:16 GMT
Yes, you would be able to do it.
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Sybil
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"I think a plan is just a list of things that don't happen."
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Post by Sybil on Aug 30, 2018 14:13:35 GMT
I just want to make it clear that I am not against the idea of the money system, I actually like a lot of things about it. And Pain, I don't think you're being a dick; I am happy you care enough to have an opinion on this stuff. I'm glad more players have gotten so invested in the server.
Just to briefly touch on the idea that the hotel players should be focusing on attracting new people to the room; I don't really agree with that. It's wonderful if that's what they want to do but I wouldn't start asking players to RP in a specific way (IE making new players feel comfortable, at least in character. OOC for sure, everyone should be nice to everyone ^-^).
I am not convinced the kind of growth you're thinking of with bringing in a bunch more people is realistic, the games's overall population just isn't high enough. But that is totally an opinion and I'd be happy to be wrong. More people does mean more logistics that have to get dealt with though.
Anyways back to the money. I think I have sussed out how most people here want to do things for the time being, but I think we should clearly state it in it's own thread in the rules when Suzie likes how it's phrased.
I DO think if we are going to continue to work with two separate money systems we really ought to call them separate things. I don't mean "you can call it whatever you want" I mean a term with a shared understanding of what it means so there doesn't need to be a huge conversation. For example if someone says to Nikki: "I am tipping you $10" that will be confusing if we are referring to both things as normal money. Whereas if we have two names it can be: "I am tipping you $10" or "I am tipping you 10 Forum-bucks" and we know exactly what they mean and Nikki knows to go check and see if she got it on the site or just be thankful in RP and not keep track.
Here is my understanding of how the majority wants to do things or would at least accept doing them:
W.I.P Money Rules:
- Forum-bucks are earned daily [for everyone with a sheet?] this amount can be increased by putting points in arts, society, or through certain DM run/approved events. The only other way is for another player to gift them to you.
- Forum-bucks are the currency required for use DURING events.
- Forum-bucks are the currency required to purchase game-play altering items from the site.
- All other "cash" transactions are purely for RP and do not need to be tracked as you will not be able to convert RP dollars to Forum-bucks.
- It is up to the discretion of the owners/operators of the various businesses throughout the city if they chose to ask for Forum-bucks for certain services or if they decide to pay their employees Forum-bucks.
[the following only applies if we go the route of having players pay for rent or hotel rooms]
- The Forum-bucks players pay for lodging are a sunken cost into the continued operation of the building. In other words. The apartment owner does not personally keep the rent each player pays for an apartment, it is simply subtracted and disappears.
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Does all that makes sense? Anything people agree/disagree with? That's just how I'd phrase stuff. I really do think having a name to refer to the currency as will help with the problem of people being confused.
P.S. Please do not ACTUALLY call them Forum-bucks --it is a horrible name.
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Post by Shepard on Aug 30, 2018 20:21:29 GMT
Hey guys sorry for a long winded idea here but no sleep and too much coffee has my brain in overdrive hehe.
So I'm not too sure how the money here on this forum works and this idea sure needs some help and ironing out to make it fair for everyone who RPs but I hope that my idea will bring people together through RP and the forum, and implanting 'real money' to the current players. P.S. sorry to Pain as I want to use you as an example and I feel you have made excellent points here and you really seem to care so please bare with me.
Okay, so basically if you have a subscription base of sorts (not real money but using the gifts the game offers, logging in for 5 days offers 300 gold and a gift costs 300 gold) this can be paid each month or so and goes into a pot. Now with this initial gift it gives each player $300 in their bank here (so for me who only has $100 i'd now have $400). Adding real prices to the world such as maybe $50 for a basic room at the hotel for a week and various prices for food and drinks, you can say u spend $100 in the week. If you have a job for example me at the bar Sybil would pay all members of staff $100 wages. Now if someone wants to play the game that way it's fine, they are still contributing to the economy.
Now the issue is that people who don't have jobs that offer wages and tips i.e. Pain and Betty needs another way, therefore the subscription pot acts as funds to the community and pays Betty's salary as well as gives owners of the hotel/bar/restaurant wages to pay the staff.
Now if Pain is playing an underground drug lord or whatever, he's at a disadvantage. But here's where the risk/reward comes in and the building of the RP. So if you choose a criminal path you may choose to sell drugs, blackmail characters or loan money. (The selling drugs, bribery and extortion can work for corrupt cops too). But basically the Blue Angel has a no sex policy on site, but if pain or whoever he sends in types in local 'Pain sens in .. to attempt to blackmail .., even if Sybil or another owner was on site they know it's part of the RP and they can choose to take action or let it slide and allow it to happen and Pain gets his blackmail victim and can blackmail that person for say $25 a week. Also the loan shark you send Pain a 300 gold gift and he gives you 300 In game money but maybe gives you a time limit to pay it back. Likewise with me working for Blue Angel I could see Sybil and she could then take it out of my wages.
Now obviously there would be a lot of information to pass around and not everyone is online at once, this is where the forum comes in. Most factions has its own private page. So if I got a loan from Sybil she can post it there, same as if someone has a bar tab to settle and I serve them two drinks and Angel serves them one, then everyone working there can look and be like okay if this person doesn't pay by the end of the week they get a 24 hr ban from the club.
Now as for the subscription, as I've said it would be used to fund a characters initial startup. Gaining money through events and stuff continues but adding points into Society can be counter-productive to someones play-style (e.g. if I wanna RP a thief I'd probably want athletics, discretion and personality, however I'm kind of forced to put points into society just to make money). Well the subscription can offer payout bonuses to people who play the game and log in and post here on the forum regularly.
Okay I feel I've rambled on too much and if you made it this far are probably wanting to kill me hehe. But I'd love to see if this could perhaps work and get better mind on it to iron out the very rough edges. But I feel it's a happy medium between Sybil's slow implement and Pain's get it in now (sorry guys, not exactly power phrasing you here).
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Sybil
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"I think a plan is just a list of things that don't happen."
Posts: 134
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Post by Sybil on Aug 31, 2018 15:04:14 GMT
Hm, I have heard the idea of using gifts as a means of tracking money before. It could work, but I think your idea requires an awful lot of accounting Nikki. That may just be me though. But I think the simpler we can make things, the better. Writing down too many numbers and keeping a running ledger is too much like an actual job lol.
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Post by Shepard on Aug 31, 2018 18:50:37 GMT
Yeah your right, it was just an idea I had and figured that if any of it could be used to work then someone like yourself, Suzie or Pain etc. would be able to find a way to implement it better. I just saw a way to bring people together in the RP more, because for the story line purpose my character wouldn't really know anything unless over hearing a conversation or an announcement being made. And also other than a brief encounter with Pain in the bar, I've seen him on but there has been no reason for our characters to interact either through the wider story or just withing the game world.
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