Pain
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by Pain on Aug 23, 2018 22:38:24 GMT
Hey this is to throw around ideas for how the discretion skill will work in game.
As of right now: Discretion is the ability to hide, pickpocket, lock-picking and almost everything related to being sneaky.
So lets dive into these three basic elements, and balance them.
Hide: Clearly a more combat related skill, though can be used practically out of combat via following someone, sneaking in general.(Combat related balancing needed I would assume, but I personally don't have any in game combat experience so let me know)
Pickpocket: Currently unusable in the game, need a viable balanced skill to go against it (I'm thinking Athletics or Presence/Charm because Betty is a cop and I would assume one of her skills would prevent her from being pick-pocketed. Though realistically I think it should be Discretion vs. Discretion cause a sneaky person would know if someone of the same skill set was trying to fuck with them, but it would make Discretion to op for most current Meta Builds)
Lock-picking: Simple enough, something is locked, your discretion level is higher you open said lock, currently balanced in this state.(Obviously Key related doors need specific keys to open and cannot be broken into)
If you have an idea for balancing, or would like to give feedback on my idea for balancing, I'd like to hear it and discus it.
Thanks 
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Post by Suzie on Aug 24, 2018 7:19:54 GMT
Hide: Clearly a more combat related skill, though can be used practically out of combat via following someone, sneaking in general.(Combat related balancing needed I would assume, but I personally don't have any in game combat experience so let me know) -> Hide is first really related to sneaking and spying without being noticed. That and the camera thing. In combat, the rules start to be pretty stable and i didn't added it to the rules yet. But i think about using it instead of athletics for the initiative check.
Pickpocket: Currently unusable in the game, need a viable balanced skill to go against it (I'm thinking Athletics or Presence/Charm because Betty is a cop and I would assume one of her skills would prevent her from being pick-pocketed. Though realistically I think it should be Discretion vs. Discretion cause a sneaky person would know if someone of the same skill set was trying to fuck with them, but it would make Discretion to op for most current Meta Builds) -> I don't think it should be related to Discretion vs Discretion. It's more like "reflex" or general perception. If we follow the realistic path, even a character with an high social ability (aka charm for example) should be able to recognize somebody acting strange. It will need some thinking to find something balanced enough so the skill isn't useless on that point but also that others players don't end up being frustrated because they end up being robbed all day. It might follow the same way that lockpicking though : stealing some money will be without consent, trying to steal something specific might require the player consent (otherwise you could simply steal the key to some key required door and enter it simply like that).
Lock-picking: Simple enough, something is locked, your discretion level is higher you open said lock, currently balanced in this state.(Obviously Key related doors need specific keys to open and cannot be broken into) -> I agree for this one. But i like to think that a lot of players can be fair play and that if you ask to another player if you can break through a specific key door OOC, under certain circumstances he might agree. Though yes, theses ones should really be considered as unopenable otherwise.
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Pain
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by Pain on Aug 24, 2018 7:45:48 GMT
If that is the case then it would being into question every build. The reason we have skills to to outclass an obstacle in our way, one way or another. I think the charm skill is our best bet at being the counter to the skill, because many users already have said skill, making it more challenging to the thief. Also people being upset about being pick-pocketed is understandable, but in the end it would be their fault for not investing skills into the skill that would prevent it. If you want to balance how upset a person can get, clearly items need a higher amount of skill to steal, and you can only steal from a person once in a while, like Skyrim for example. It would work like(Tested with d100), first roll to see if you steal from them, then if you wanted to steal some money, roll again and divide the percentage of the roll. 19% of 1000$ is 190$, 47% of 5000$ is 2350$, this current system would incentives people to also take care of their funds, leaving them vulnerable in another instance. Again, just another idea
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Post by Suzie on Aug 24, 2018 8:21:18 GMT
The more ideas, the more we should be able to do something nice so...
Limiting the ability to steal from a player over a certain amount of time look good though.
There should also be some rules about the ability of the victim to notice it.
With a successfull attempt the victim shouldn't be able to know (well if you steal the same person everyday it's something else).
An almost successfull attempt should be like you failed but without being noticed.
And a really failed attempt end up you being caught.
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Pain
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by Pain on Aug 24, 2018 8:34:24 GMT
Well depending on a persons skill level I think a critical fail is only when you roll a 1, standard dnd rules
d20 for chance to steal, 1 critical fail, 20 critical success, 2-10, fail but not caught, 11-19 success.
Next I added the d100 for a percentage of the total money taken from a player, as if you were to reach into someones pocket for money you wouldnt know how much they had, or if they carried it all in one pocket.
The percentage is to prevent 100% of someones money being stolen.
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Pain
New Member
Posts: 22
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Post by Pain on Aug 24, 2018 8:36:52 GMT
The other thing about the skill though is your proficiency with a skill makes it more unlikely you will fail. I have level 6 discretion meaning if I roll a 2 i would get a +6 for that roll meaning a 8. Its still a fail, but that's why you would pump more points in to prevent yourself from failing.
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Post by Suzie on Aug 24, 2018 9:48:57 GMT
Well it's not DnD either  I'm not fond of d20 because as the skills level is pretty low (10 here is a pretty good score), d20 is too high to make the skill really relevant. If we add some attributes that stack with the basic score like in DnD it would be more relevant i think. For the max money, there should be a max amount. For example, let's consider you make a character which is a rich business man (or make a big win at the casino) and he end up having 300 000$. It wouldn't be realistic to consider that he will wander around with all of this money in his pockets. Though since he have some money, he probably wear expensive jewelry and stuff like that, so this max amount should be related to the overall money the character have. (By the way, it's my opinion, i want to discuss it with as much players as possible to find something that everybody agree with, don't take it as a "it will be like this and that's all"). |
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Post by Suzie on Aug 24, 2018 9:54:17 GMT
If we find a good system, i could add a pickpocket system to the current system that will handle everything.
It could make thing more smooth and limit metagaming.
Though i also need a way to control it so some players don't pickpocket players that aren't even connected or in the same room.
That could be a feature that isn't activated at first and that i would activate only for trusted players, with some control or requirement like screenshot each time you steal in case of trouble later.
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Sybil
Full Member
"I think a plan is just a list of things that don't happen."
Posts: 134
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Post by Sybil on Aug 27, 2018 21:26:04 GMT
Well it's not DnD either I'm not fond of d20 because as the skills level is pretty low (10 here is a pretty good score), d20 is too high to make the skill really relevant. If we add some attributes that stack with the basic score like in DnD it would be more relevant i think. For the max money, there should be a max amount. For example, let's consider you make a character which is a rich business man (or make a big win at the casino) and he end up having 300 000$. It wouldn't be realistic to consider that he will wander around with all of this money in his pockets. Though since he have some money, he probably wear expensive jewelry and stuff like that, so this max amount should be related to the overall money the character have. (By the way, it's my opinion, i want to discuss it with as much players as possible to find something that everybody agree with, don't take it as a "it will be like this and that's all"). I was going to comment on this. Pickpocketing actual money is tricky to justify. With credit and debits cards I typically carry no more than $10 on me and sometimes go weeks carrying no paper money at all. Then that means we would need to start thinking about: Can a theif use someone's credit card? How long before the person notices it's missing and cancels it? It might almost make things simpler to stick with only non-money objects being steal-able? |
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Pain
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Posts: 22
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Post by Pain on Aug 27, 2018 23:02:17 GMT
Hmmm good point, you couldn't justify any time periods when having a card. It would be based on an honor system of the person waiting for a time where they would look in their wallet, resulting in a bunch of Meta play to stop a thief most likely. So in any case its more likely that Non-money items are the way to go when it comes to stealing, because of the new item shop certain things now have tangible value. Nice Input Sybil, I had forgotten about credit cards lmao
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Post by Suzie on Aug 28, 2018 7:00:50 GMT
I partially agree. People won't walk around with all their moneys but there is, in my mind, some items that reflect that money and doesn't exist through the item shop but can be linked to that money thing, like jewelry, pricey bags / watches, etc... There is also the people going to the strip club that should have some money on us because tipping strippers with credit card might be hard For objects, there is some items that can't be stolen, like quests items or special items. The others items, no worry for me. Otherwise that mean that people will need to have a way to get their items back, and this way will automatically evolve to PvP then loot the defeated. It's not something i want to see IG i think. It can derive very quickly from what i already saw. In the end, i guess, it should really be related to fair play. If a player don't have any items he will give some money (most players around here don't have items at all) otherwise he should choose to give you some item (no i don't think that flowers can be hidden in pockets and stolen by mistakes, but nice try ). If you try to steal some important items like keys or something like that, then you should have the other player consent (or some admin to validate it around, but i don't feel like that the admin role should prevail over player consent and fair play). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 17:37:36 GMT
Speaking of trying to tip strippers with credit cards... Blue Angels needs an ATM machine!!! |
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